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Coming changes and additions (03/02/2010 11:33)

As of next season, there are some important changes coming into the game, along with some very nice new features. The time has come to take the lid off, so you can be prepared for the coming changes.

1: New Player-search system

As it is today, the search for player causes a dramatic load on the system. Some times, it is so bad, that the entire game grinds to a halt, and this prevents everyone from doing anything while this goes on. This is why player-searching is turned off during simulations, as well as during the first day after the season-change. This is only getting worse as we get bigger and bigger, and we can't live with that. If it gets any worse, nor can you.

After some careful consideration, some trial-and-error, and a few good ideas, a new system has been created to handle this better.

The short version is:
There will now be a queue-system where searches are being done 1 by 1, and you will be notified when your search has been completed. Your last 10 searches are stored on the server, and are presented to you in a list on the search-page.

If you want the long version (recommended), then just keep reading, and you will find a lengthy detailed explanation further down. There you can read why this is a huge improvement, not just something that saves server-capacity.

2: Change in how unsigned players (those without teams) are created

Today, there is no real limit to how good unsigned players can be. This has been discussed, and found to be unfortunate. As of next season, unsigned (teamless) players will never be created with a Quality above 74.

3: Change involving buying and selling players

Unfortunately, we see a lot of cases where users try to avoid the rule about "the highest bid must win" when it comes to transfers. We also still see some users abusing transfers and multiple teams to sell good players cheap to their primary team. The following change will make this somewhat more difficult:
A) If you REJECT an offer, that player is taken off the transfer-market and may not be listed again for a period of 14 days. The same will happen if you let all bids expire with the default 5-day limit. This means you are better off rejecting the bids manually than letting them time out.

I guess that means you should consider rejecting bids carefully!

B) Another small improvement is that a message is now going out to all bidders (who have not withdrawn their bid) when a player is sold, to show you who bought it and for how much. It makes it a bit easier to track players you have shown interest in.

4: A "fix" regarding player-cups

Winners of player-cups now get a minimum of 1 credit as part of their prize. There was no minimum before, which could lead to a prize of 0 credits, which is just boring!

5: Information about Training-camps

Explaining tooltips have been added to the headers in the CAMP-section of the training-page, to explain Location, Accommodation and Intensity.

The credit-cost for camps is now easier to see, as it is not just a tooltip, but written under the cashcost.

6: Better performance for you, thanks to jQuery 1.4

We have upgraded our jQuery library to the new 1.4 version. This means that almost every single client-action is a bit faster, like drag'n drop, showing feedback, fading up and down etc etc etc. Measures indicate a speedup of about 30% in such cases.

7: Better performance for us, thanks to me!

Some serious optimisations have gone into the league-round ticker. Hopefully this should shave off another 3-5 minutes off the league-rounds.

Some serious optimisations have gone into the season-change logic. Hopefully this shold shave off an hour or so on the downtime between seasons.

Also, the new player-search will give us a much better performance overall, all through the day!

8: Improved back-end and server-monitoring

We now have a more intelligent system for watching over our servers. If the simulator should ever hang again, the system will do a fair job trying to repair itself and get back into action as quick as it can. This should eliminate most of our operational issues, as it can fix every known problem we have had so far. Very exciting and potentially very timesaving for us here at HQ!

If the simulators should hang now, it should take no more than 5 minutes before the system is repaired.

In our 4 year history, we have had 3 occurences of severe simulator-hangs that have caused problems for teams who had accepted or issued a lot of friendlies. We are now protected from such unfortunate incidents.

9: A smashingly cool achievement-system has now been created! (And it will help new players get into the game as well!)

It is all well and good to fight for promotion, or to proceed to the next round of the league-cup, but at times, one can be stuck for quite a number of seasons in "no-mans-land". Also, we have been lacking an ingame "tutorial" for new players. Sometimes, all it takes is a little list and some rewards, and even new players can find out how to do things! So, we came up with Achievements.

Achievements is not a new concept, and you can find it in many other games. For instance if you play Fifa 2010 on your console, you probably know you get an achievement after scoring X goals in practice-mode, or after spending 4 hours in real match-time. To my knowledge, Fifa 2010 has 44 achievements. Bah, we say, we can beat that! So we have made a whooping 78 achievements! And we have left room to add lots more over time!

These achievements are divided into 5 categories: Basic, Advanced, Superior, Impossible and Special. The basic achivements, and to a certain degree, the Advanced ones, are meant as a helping hand for new users.They involve achievements like "Upgrade your stadium capacity", "Place a player on the transfer-list", "Introduce yourself in your department-forum" and pretty basic stuff. Unfinished achievements in the Basic-category are also listed at "objectives" on your General-page, and a new player should be able to complete all of those very quickly.

Achievements are displayed in your team-details popup, in a new "section", just like your Trophies. There you will see which ones you have achieved, and which ones you have not achieved in the first 2 categories. The last 3 categories (Superior, Impossible and Special) are not immediately visible until you actually achieve one.  So, everyone will know exactly what to do to complete the first two categories, but the last 3 must be discovered over time. Of course, as soon as someone manages to complete one of these "secret" achievements, the word will spread and you will learn what you have to do to get it. We are pretty sure it will take many seasons before anyone gets them all. It is fair to say that some of the harder ones will be out of reach for most players, as some have different requirements and goals.

In a few rare cases, we have decided to make some achievements retro-active. I can reveal right now, there is an achievement for upgrading your stadium-capacity. This would be a bit unfair for teams with completed stadiums and max capacity, so this is one that will be given autoamtically to all teams who have upgraded heir stadium-capacity. There are a couple more, which are much harder to get, that a few teams have managed in the past which we have decided to make retro-active. To name an example, we have one called "The Double", and I have a feeling you can understand what that is about. We will use MLs history to give this achievement to those who have managed to win The Double in the past, as much as we can.

Some achievements come with a small reward, like a few credits or a small lump of money. this isn't meant to be a feature that will make teams rich, it is just something to brag with. To enhance the brag-factor, we have also made it possible to post links directly to your achievements-list by using a similar format as the link to your team-details. But instead of writing (TEAM: 12345) you write (ACHIEVE: 12345). (No, it doesn't work until next season, git!)

Some achievements are handed out to you just as you complete the objective, while others are handed out a little later to avoid telling you that you have won The Double before you have had a chance to read the match-report from the League Cup finals. Some are handed out during season-changes as well. We expect a number of "complaints" about this though, like "I saw someone with Achievement X, and I have have just done the same thing and didn't get it!".
Patience is a virtue, if you have accomplished the objective, the achievement will come.

 We shall see what happens to the first teams to claim 50, 60 or 70 of them (-:

We are quite confident this feature will be quite popular, we sure had a lot of fun when we made them and tested them!

10: Notes have changed

Due to input from a lot of players, we are changing the Notes-section. We will, with a small degree of remorse, move away from the "funny looking" draggable post-it notes, to a setup that looks "less funny" but with improved usability. You will understand how it works when you see it, there is no need for further explanations on this point.

Summary

We have made several performance and maintenance-ralted improvements. This will make the game better for everyone, and it will give us more time to spend on other things than monitoring servers and recovering fra system-failures. This is a good thing, trust me (-:

We have also added some stuff (You will love the achievements, I promise!) and improved some old stuff (hello Notes!). We have tried to make the transfer-market less prone to cheating, and tried to help new users get into the game a little easier than before.

All in all, we are quite proud to present these changes, and we are certain they will all do their part in making ManagerLeague a better game for everyone.
We are also happy that some of these changes will free up some of our time, so that we can have some time to work on the simulator for a while, without too many interruptions. It is my sincere wish that the next update, whenever it comes, has to do with just that, the match-simulator.

In-depth details about the new player-search system

To try to meet the demand for more information here, I decided to give you the full details here. If you are not really interested, you can stop reading now, because the rest of this article is only about the details.

I will start by showing a screenshot that will help me explain how it works:

 As you can see, it looks fairly identical to what you are used to. Of course, the top right corner is different, as this is where your last 10 searches are displayed.

The search-form

Lets take a look at the search-form first, as it has some minor changes:

 The observant reader will notice that the checkboxes for "Players on teams" and "Teamless players" have been replaced by a drop-down menu. This has been done due to a search-optimisation, which means you will have to chose which kind of player you want to search for. You can no longer make one search that includes both Signed and Unsigned players, they will have to be done seperately.  This has allowed us to speed up searches significantly. We realize this can be regarded as a bit annoying, being forced to make 2 searches in stead of one if you are looking for idenatical players and do not care if they are on a team or not, but we decided it was worth the boost in performance.

The default values have also been changed a bit. The current system would default the MAX VALUE to your amount of money. This is a bit impractical, as most users would be able to get their hands on a bit more money if they wanted to, either through sacking someone, converting credits etc.So in the new system, this amount is rounded up a bit. We are quite sure this is a definate improvement in user-friendlyness, and it will save you some manual editing of the value-field.

You are no longer allowed to search for really odd values. The Min and Max Values will be rounded to their nearest million, so if you search for a player with a value between 17.895.143 and 34.123.987 you are searching for players valued between 18 and 34 millions. This also make some searches faster, and we do not belive this rounding of numbers will affect users in any bad way.

I have also tried to help users from making mistakes here. For instance, if you insert a minimum value that is HIGHER than the maximum value, this oversight will be corrected by the system, and the minimum value will be set to something "sane".

I have also taken the liberty to limit the max-value you can search for to 250 million. ManagerLeague does not have players with a value higher than 173 million today, and we will never reach above 250.000.000, that's a promise. Hence there is little point in supporting it.
A similar max-value has been set for the special searches for unsigned 17 year-olds. There is no point in searching for a 17 yo unsigned player with a max value of 460 millions, because their value stop at a much much lower number. This has also been done to improve performance, with no loss to you.

The last thing you should know, is what happens, and what does NOT happen, when you click the Search-button!
When you click it, your search is not performed right away, and no players will be listed in the Search-result area. What happens is that your search-details are placed in a queue on the server, to be handeled one by one. To actually SHOW the players your search found, you will have to click in the top right corner box, where your "Stored searches" will be listed.

Stored searches

In the top right corner of your screen, you will see your list of stored searches. If you never delete any of them, the list will always contain your last 10 searches. Keep in mind that only your last 10 searches are stored. When you make search #11, your oldest search will be deleted.

Just in case this was not immediately understood, the color of the entry lets you know which role you have searched for. Blue means goalkeepers, green means defenders etc etc etc.

Yes, clicking the red X will delete your stored search if you should wish to do so.

These stored searches are clickable, and you must click one to see which players were found. Note that the list is updated every 10 seconds. Also note that "unfinished searches" will have a name ending in "...", i.e. "Quality: 75-93 Age 17-25 Signed ...", that indicates that the search is in the queue, waiting to be completed.

One very cool thing about this new search, is that it allows for "templates". We know that it is quite common to search for good young players at the start or a season, and that you often perform the exact same search several times over the first days in a season. That is now quite a lot easier. When you click one of these results, it will change all your search-parameters to what you used when you made that search, so if you wish to make an identical search again, you just hit the Search-button right away. Voila.

Now, there is one little "thing" you should know about these stored searches. The results they will display when you click on them, CAN CHANGE. WTF???
Lets say you made a search for unsigned 17 year olds, quality 72-99.  If you are lucky, you could find a Q 74 player on top of that list, whcih is great! Buy him, quikcly, I say! Becuase, if you wait, even just 5 minutes, it is likely that someone else will. And if they do, when you click on your stored search, this player will no longer be visible because he is no longer for sale! So that is what I mean, players may vanish from your Stored Search, if their transfer-status have changed.This is actually not that strange if you think about it, and I decided it was a much better solution than showing the player, but now owned by a team.

The actual search

The main reason for modifying how player-search works, has been the enormous load it causes to our system. Today, it doesn't take more than just over a handful of eager searchers to bring the entire servers to a crawl. This is very visible just after the game is open in a new season, when we have had to disable searches to let everyone log in.  As of next season, the searches are performed one by one, picked from a queue in the same order they were placed. One team can have a maximum of 3 searches in the queue.

- When you hit the Search-button, your search enters the queue.
- Then a program will perform the searches one by one, and let you know when your search is ready.
- You can remain on the page and wait for your search to be completed, as your page updates your list of searches every 10 seconds, or you can go about your business and wait for it to complete. In case the search takes more then 10 seconds to complete, you will receive a message when it is done. This way, we do not spam your inbox full of messages if your searches come through fast, but still give you a message during times whene the queue is long.

The delay (oh no!)

We can not say how much delay there will be until we see this on the live system, but we have been able to optimize these searches a whole lot due to how we perform them.  We also have a kind of "caching mechanism" now, which should increase performance the more searches there are! Even though all tests on other system than the real one must be taken for what they are, a different scenario, we see indications that we should be able to handle 10-50 searches per second on an average. We'll see though! So for all I know, this system will have to be improved on several times before we find the right mix of load VS performance, but at least we now have a way of controlling it all. We are very exicted to see how it will work on the live system, and we hope we will not be too surprised.

Yes, there will be quite a queue during the first hours after a season-change, we are aware of that, but that is better than a "dead server". We expect the queue to shorten quite quickly though.

A kind of magic? No, it's mostly cheating!

Most of the searches being performed are quite similar. You are not the only one looking for that special youngster. User A performs a search for a Q74 17yo GK with a value between this and that. 2 seconds later, you perform the same search. The system will know if there are any new players created in those 2 seconds, and if there are not, it is much easier to simply give you a copy of his result rather than straining the server all over again just to end up with the exact same result!
Now, if User A has actually managed to buy one of those players during those 2 seconds, your result, although being a "copy" , will not display this player, as he is no longer for sale.That's outright clever, that is!

This has the splendid effect of increasing the cache-effect the more searches are being ordered! So it means more performance when it is most needed, which is kind of cool, from a nerdy perspective! (It's like your car increases its engine-size the harder you press that pedal!)

We have seen such searches hitting the cache being reduced from 0,5 seconds to 0,0002 seconds, which is , well, very very fast.

Search Summary

This system is guaranteed to prevent ManagerLeague from hanging due to player-searching. This will avoid other problems for us as well, and make the game more enjoyable to everyone.
This system will give everyone a more equal chance of finding that extra cool player, because no-one can control where in the queue they are. Your distance to the server is no longer relevant at all.
This system should be able to outperform the previous model by far, when it comes to the number of searches we can handle during a given period.
This system can also easily be allowed to perform searches even when the league-round is being simulated.
It also gives you "templates" so you can spend less time filling in the criteria and more time to do other things.

I know this was a lengthy explanation with quite a lot of details. I might have gotten away with something much shorter, but there have been some rather heavy discussions on the forums about this topic. So, better to explain it all.
If things go as we hope they will, the queue will only be "noticeable" during the time we usually had to close down searches, and that is a very nice trade-off.

 

If you made it all the way down here, I am outright impressed!!!

Now you know what you can look forward to next season, while you enjoy this one!

Yours truly

- Spinner

PS: the first one to point out 10 typos wins a credit!

Questions and answers in regards to the blog-entry

temujin wrote:
When will we have a uefa cup?
This is not a priority at the moment. I do not have a date to give you.

Basher baz wrote:
When I go back to my "saved" search, I understand that it will have deleted any sold players, but does it ever add players as they become newly availabe?  Or should I consider it a "snapshot" in time that can only degrade and that I need to do the same search again to be sure that a new teamless Q74 has not been created?
It will never pick up new players not found in the original search. However, by clicking on your old search, you are set up with the same search-parameters automatically, so it takes very little time to search again.

Barkeeper wrote:
You now have maximum attribues that limit the Q on teamless players. Very rare over Q74/75. So I don't really understand "Today, there is no real limit to how good unsigned players can be". Will the Q74 max, shift the whole distribution of teamless players, so that now Q70 is common, next season Q66/67 is the common Q?
Ok, this should probbaly answer a few more questions about the same topic. Read carefully, and it should be clear:
Today, a new player is made with different stats in different ranges based on his role. If he were to "really win the lottery", he can come out as a Q80. The chance is just very small. However, a couple of Q79s have been found over the past year, and when testing this on the development-server, we saw there was no problem stumbeling across Q79 GKs "now and then".
With the new model, I have not changed the ranges, or the formulas behind them. I simply do this:
If the player ends up with a quality higher than 74 we simply skip creating the player.
This means:
The chance of finding a Q72, Q73 or Q74 will be exactly the same as today.


bocoboco wrote:
I am concerned about the new rule about rejecting a bid. Maybe Spinner can elaborate. What if the current price is below my expectation, and if I reject it - would I infringe your new rule ??
Any bid you reject yourself by pressing the reject-button will take the player off the transfer-list and you will not be able to add him for 14 days, correct. I recommend using the feature called "Minimum Bid" to prevent bids under that limit. 

Mr Jolly G Reaper wrote:
Can I assume we can scout these lovely Q74 teamless so long as they still appear in our stored searches?
I am not sure I understand your question. You can scout any player in the game, on your search-result or not.
Your latest scout-reports are still saved on the Watches-page too.


Mr Jolly G Reaper also wrote:
I love the buzz of clicking on a Q75/76, much the same as hooking a big salmon, can we not persuade you to throw in the odd Q76 pretty please? Pressumably not as search perameters have been set but I'm sure alot of the community share my view.
Of course I understand that it is a lot of fun finding one of these exceptional players. However, we have decided that the best players should come from a youth-academy, and not jump out of a hat.

Unkn0wngenius wrote:
When a person recieves an achievement from one of the three "hardest" ones, can other players then see these achivements so they know how to get them?
Yes, everyone can see which achievements you have, and how you got them. This is how we expect these to spread with time.

d o c wrote:
once your queued search is done, it should be displayed immediately rather than first click on it.
The thing is, doc, when the search is done, we have no idea if you are even on the search-page anymore, or even if you are online anymore. This is why we send you a message if the search takes more than 10 seconds. Also, keep in mind, you will most likely have more than 1 search-result in the queue, probably placed just a second or so after the first one. Should we then suddenly hide your current search-result just because a new one was ready? I think not.

MAD_SH4RK wrote:
The association with the creation of a manager ranking would be even more addictive! Maybe a future option, perhaps
I have actually received an intresting setup when it comes to ranking managers. There are some issues with it, because ML has a rather "closed" system where most players never play eachother (being locked inside a department), so we are still a bit in the think-tank on this one.

Zwedinho wrote:
What will happen if the bid for the player don't get accepted in 5 days? Wil it be the same, not be listed again for a period of 14 days?
That is a very good question, Zwedinho, and brings up a point we had not considered. Thank you. As it is right now, there is no 14-days penalty for these auto-rejections. I need to discuss this with other admins before I can post an answer.
UPDATE: Yes, the same rule will apply to the auto-rejected bids.

Focilabda wrote:
When will be that time when you will update engine of "random" matches?
Error. Question does not compute.
Hull VS Chelsea yesterday: 1-1.
Quote from Wikipedia: The Norwegian national team is the only team that has played Brazil without ever losing to them.
Manchester City VS Nottingham Forest = 0-3 in the FA Cup
Chelsea VS Southend United = 1-1 in the FA Cup
On a more serious note:
The simulator in ML is not the reality. It is a game-simulator. It uses all the stats of all the players + teamstats + tactics etc from both sides and works its way through the match. There is no "safeguard" to make sure that a Q90 team will always defeat a Q70 team, and in the end, it is entirely up to the finishing of the Q90 players to make sure that ball goes into the goal without the Q70 goalie getting his hands on it. The simulator does not "check the result after the simulation is done" to validate it against the "expected result", and it blissfully ignorant of what happened one minute ago (unless that changed something that has effect) and focused on what is happening in THIS minute. So even if you have 5 shots on target, and the opponent has 0, the game can very well end 0-0 BECAUSE it is simulated, and not precalced. Had it been precalced, then I could have of course have "gone back in time" and "corrected" the result to something more "probable" if the result was a surprise, but that is not how the simulator works.


Wazzaa wrote:
JUST ONE THING!!!Try to make when you play a match not see just word but see little circles like F.M!!!THATS WILL BE GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sorry, but I do not think this is going to happen. I would love to have it, but it would require a completely new angle when it comes to simulating the matches.

Rational wrote:
First of all, I'm a bit disappointed that new events/tactics wasn't prioritized higher than these changes :( I can understand the reduction of serverload change, but not the others like 'achievements' for instance.
Thats ok Rational. I am happy to explain our priorities in this case:
We have, for a long time, tried to come up with a way to prevent losing so many players during their first couple of days in ManagerLeague. This is the time where we lose the most. We have gotten feedback from both professionals and actual newbies that we needed something to "pull them along" in the beginning, and this is something we have tried to work out for a long time. So when the idea was finally worked out properly, about having a kind of Achievement-system, we liked it a lot. At that time, it was only for the new players. However, it did not take very long before we figured out that we could enhance it, take it further, and make it something that everyone could enjoy. See for yourself, look at the feedback in the thread. And "childish"...I dunno...It's kind of nice to have a lasting proof on your team-details that you managed to win The Double in season X!


He also wrote:
Will the limitation mean that the amount of players that earlier was created with higher Q now be Q74 - meaning we'll see many more Q74 than today, or will it be like Pubby asks, a shift downwards where todays Q78 will be Q74 next season, and Q74 will be Q70 and so on.
As I answered Barkeeper, the answer is no. There will be the same amount of Q74 players as before. If you account for probability here, it basically means that the 30 (or so) best players (Q75 and up) created each season will simply NOT be created.

And then he wrote:
Will the limitations be based on attributes or on Q? With the first one I mean that you put a limit on each attribute and for a player to be created with Q74, he'll have to reach maximum in all counting attributes, while if you base it on Q only, we could see players with extreme scores in the main main att, while much lower in the others....
I belive this question is now void, as the process has been explained in full.

Finally, a word about this teamless / unsigned Q-limit:
This may, or may not, be just the first step. We have played with the idea of lowering it more with time, and we have even played with the idea of removing them alltogether. There is no need to go into a debate about this now, as we know nothing, and these "ideas" are things that will not be rushed in. It could be that the limit is dropped to Q73 in 3 seasons, what do I know...And maybe to Q72 in 8 seasons. Or maybe not. Mr Time will tell, and we will let you know when Mr Time has told us.



I hope that cleared up a few points, and we will certainly start talking about the point Zwedinho made, so we can answer that question as well.

Have a good evening!
- Spinner

 

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Zz00150399 wrote:
14:00 03/02 2010
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thanks :)

Zz00122691 wrote:
14:03 03/02 2010
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Nice:)

Zz00001825 wrote:
14:07 03/02 2010
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 is ok but, when we and eufa cup? We can not approach a little footbalul even real? in rest what to say?congratulations for the best football manager and I hope to keep as much to get Champions League... frankly I was tired all lose 4.3 and 3.2 forever and always .... hihihihihihihi...excuse me learn english the pool again as I can not help...cheers

flippa wrote:
14:08 03/02 2010
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first to leave a comment should get a cred prize :)

looking great spinner, this game just keeps improvin n improving :)

Zz00295934 wrote:
14:09 03/02 2010
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ok

Mr Santos wrote:
14:11 03/02 2010
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 Very good!!

I'm already very anxious 4 the next season!!

 

GOOD JOB 4 ALL OF U

Zz00292386 wrote:
14:11 03/02 2010
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 that are quite a lot of stuff Spinner, thank you and keep up the great work please :D

uncleben wrote:
14:14 03/02 2010
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 nice work spinner i agree on the transfer market issue..

Manskill wrote:
14:15 03/02 2010
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TY for the new upgrades. :P

Prezi wrote:
14:17 03/02 2010
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Prepared-line 1

Period under section 3A

Interest under section 3B

Training in #55

Performance in #7

Backened in #8

Achievement in the 2nd line of the 3rd paragraph under #9

Immediately line 2 of paragraph 4 under #9

Achievement line 1 of 5th paragraph under #9

Instead line 2 of paragraph 6 under #9

Improved in 2nd line under #10

Interested line 1 under In depth details about the new player-search system

 

Hope i helped you with your english:)

Zz00299647 wrote:
14:18 03/02 2010
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wow. the achievement feature sound aaaawsome, so does the rest.

Prezi wrote:
14:21 03/02 2010
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Btw Spinner if you were willing to pay more credits and wasn't such a cheap b****** i bet i could have found atleast 25:-)

The Crying Orc wrote:
14:23 03/02 2010
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 LOVE this

bsmkchan wrote:
14:24 03/02 2010
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Thank you very much for your hard work.

Zz00332221 wrote:
14:25 03/02 2010
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thanks

NASAM wrote:
14:25 03/02 2010
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 "prepard", "teamless", "periode", "intrest", "trainig", "accomodation", "perforamance", "shold", "optimisation", "occurances", "seaons",

"everyoe", "havae", "imrpoved", "thsi"...

 

Jeg har for lite å gjøre...

 

Basher Baz wrote:
14:26 03/02 2010
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Sounds great...one question.

When I go back to my "saved" search, I understand that it will have deleted any sold players, but does it ever add players as they become newly availabe?  Or should I consider it a "snapshot" in time that can only degrade and that I need to do the same search again to be sure that a new teamless Q74 has not been created?

joaoglopes wrote:
14:26 03/02 2010
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so you can be prepard for the

 

Some times, it is so bad

 

for a periode of 14 days

 

you have shown intrest in.

 

Hopefully this shold shave off another 3-5 minutes

 

Hopefully this shold shave off an hour or so

 

 

are not immidiately visible

 

So, everyoe will know

 

hat a few teams havae managed

 

and recovering fra system-failures

 

If you are not really intrested

 

 

So did i won? :)

 

P.S. - Still it's a smart way of making people read the intire article ;)

Charlie249 wrote:
14:27 03/02 2010
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"who have upgraded heir stadium-capacity"...should be theire under "9

Looks nice  :)

Zz00040719 wrote:
14:30 03/02 2010
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You now have maximum attribues that limit the Q on teamless players. Very rare over Q74/75.

So I don't really understand "Today, there is no real limit to how good unsigned players can be"

Will the Q74 max, shift the whole distribution of teamless players, so that now Q70 is common, next season Q66/67 is the common Q?

MdaZ wrote:
14:33 03/02 2010
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Thanks, keep on good work.

omend wrote:
14:36 03/02 2010
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cool, thx

Zz00330127 wrote:
14:36 03/02 2010
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Nice my mans, good work.

I hug!

Zz00239905 wrote:
14:37 03/02 2010
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Thank you and good work!

 

 

/Blueskycdc

Zz00232213 wrote:
14:38 03/02 2010
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 my mouse is really happy to hear all that improvements about the search-sys  . poor little hardware always had to survive 100 clicks/minute after season change as i hunted for Q73+ youngsters. :D nice work

bocoboco wrote:
14:38 03/02 2010
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Typo 1 -  Prepared

As of next season, there are some important changes coming into the game, along with some very nice new features. The time has come to take the lid off, so you can be prepard for the coming changes.

Typo 2 -  Sometimes

As it is today, the search for player causes a dramatic load on the system. Some times, it is so bad

Typo 3 -  Player-search

This is why player-searching is turned off during simulations

Typo 4 -  Delete "a"

As of next season, unsigned (teamless) players will never be created with a Quality above 74.

Typo 5 -  "Cheaply" instead of "cheap"

We also still see some users abusing transfers and multiple teams to sell good players cheap to their primary team. The following change will make this somewhat more difficult:
 

Typo 6 -  Period

A) If you REJECT an offer, that player is taken off the transfer-market and may not be listed again for a periode of 14 days.

Typo 7 - Interest

B) Another small improvement is that a message is now going out to all bidders (who have not withdrawn their bid) when a player is sold, to show you who bought it and for how much. It makes it a bit easier to track players you have shown intrest in.

Typo 8 -  0 Credit  (without s)

There was no minimum before, which could lead to a prize of 0 credits, which is just boring!

Typo 9 - quickly

Lets say you made a search for unsigned 17 year olds, quality 72-99.  If you are lucky, you could find a Q 74 player on top of that list, whcih is great! Buy him, quikcly, I say!

Typo 10-  forward

Typo 11  - Separately 

which means you will have to chose which kind of player you want to search for. You can no longer make one search that includes both Signed and Unsigned players, they will have to be done seperately. 

Now you know what you can look forard to next season, while you enjoy this one!

Spinner wrote:
14:39 03/02 2010
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Thanks for all the comments so far.

Most reported typos have now been corrected, as far as I can tell.

Tonight, I will go through all the questions in here that have to do with the blog and not the typos, write down answers and post them in the Game Announcment forum so everyone can read them. I will also add them to the bottom of the blog-entry.

Cya later!

 

Zz00280311 wrote:
14:39 03/02 2010
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Cool ;)

numant-goku wrote:
14:41 03/02 2010
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Thanks for all this hard work making this game funniest. I think that achievements are good idea to improve the game, to teach new players, to enyoy everyoone.

Good Work

bocoboco wrote:
14:42 03/02 2010
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Only one credit for spotting 10 typos ???

And, I believe that there are plentiful of "typos" to be spotted :)

About the new improvements:

I am concerned about the new rule about rejecting a bid. Maybe Spinner can elaborate. What if the current price is below my expectation, and if I reject it - would I infringe your new rule ??

Mr Jolly G Reaper wrote:
14:45 03/02 2010
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Nice work,  great improvements to an already great game. Just 2 questions from me.

1. Can I assume we can atill scout these lovely Q74 teamless so long as they still appear in our stored searches?

2. I love the buzz of clicking on a Q75/76, much the same as hooking a big salmon, can we not persuade you to throw in the odd Q76 pretty please? Pressumably not as search perameters have been set but I'm sure alot of the community share my view.

 

Zz00196027 wrote:
14:50 03/02 2010
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Good job !

Tobias Bjerkomp wrote:
14:50 03/02 2010
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 Great!

bocoboco wrote:
14:52 03/02 2010
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Only one credit for spotting 10 typos ???

And, I believe that there are plentiful of "typos" to be spotted :)

About the new improvements:

I am concerned about the new rule about rejecting a bid. Maybe Spinner can elaborate. What if the current price is below my expectation, and if I reject it - would I infringe your new rule ??

Zz00263043 wrote:
14:54 03/02 2010
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 ok..

Zz00014345 wrote:
14:54 03/02 2010
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Good ;)

Zz00196027 wrote:
15:08 03/02 2010
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Good job !

Zz00258255 wrote:
15:14 03/02 2010
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My english is not good, but I will try to translate it to Understand. Thanks so much.

Unkn0wngenius wrote:
15:17 03/02 2010
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 When a person recieves an achievement from one of the three "hardest" ones, can other players then see these achivements so they know how to get them?

kane66 wrote:
15:18 03/02 2010
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ni

blabla22 wrote:
15:20 03/02 2010
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Achievements nice :)

d o c wrote:
15:20 03/02 2010
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great ... just a little suggestion: once your queued search is done, it should be displayed immediately rather than first click on it.

or maybe just an (open immediately)checkbox if anyone really wants to click first ;)

Zz00324147 wrote:
15:24 03/02 2010
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good job!

Zz00166017 wrote:
15:39 03/02 2010
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nice work

Zz00181472 wrote:
15:44 03/02 2010
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Sounds great : ) Can't wait

The Dullis wrote:
15:48 03/02 2010
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 Awesome! :D 

Carlo the G wrote:
15:49 03/02 2010
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good job

Buckie wrote:
15:50 03/02 2010
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Looking forward to the changes this game is becoming even more adictive.

Zz00322691 wrote:
15:54 03/02 2010
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nice work..

labbo wrote:
15:55 03/02 2010
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 nice work. i love the idea with the Achievements. looking forward to it. 

MAD_SH4RK wrote:
15:55 03/02 2010
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The achievements will be fun to all players! Excelent job ML crew ;) The association with the creation of a manager ranking would be even more addictive! Maybe a future option, perhaps :p (THREAD:66915)

Zz00328113 wrote:
16:00 03/02 2010
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ok thx about that

Zwedinho wrote:
16:01 03/02 2010
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What will happen if the bid for the player don't get accepted in 5 days? Wil it be the same, not be listed again for a period of 14 days?

Focilabda wrote:
16:02 03/02 2010
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When will be that time when you will update engine of "random" matches?

What you said in this topic sounds good, but there are some old "magic" "problem"...
for example:
My friends and i in the Hungarian league have lot of matches when we very often get very interesting results :O i think it is not special thing and doesn't apply our league. We have lots of trying to score a goal and the enemy hasn't got any, and finally the match ended with no scores, and the performances were over 50-60 :S Everyone can say "that's football", but i think it isn't right, because it won't happen match by match in the real world :O I am not interested in that i would like to win all of my matches, but these matches present me a real picture not a fake :(

I hope this situation will change in the near future :I

-LoLo- wrote:
16:24 03/02 2010
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<<<GOOD   JOB>>>

Zz00335670 wrote:
16:37 03/02 2010
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 can u when publish something translate too to spanish, as u look i don't speak/read english =) thanks

 

-the search of players is great, i know this sistem, im a user nwebie

Trx wrote:
16:39 03/02 2010
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A suggestion to avoid cheating with sales: make the system to automatically reject all bids which are over the player value and neither outbid nor accepted after 10 rounds. First I wanted to suggest 5 days, but 10 rounds are more realistic because of the weekends... When the system rejects the bid the player shouldnt be listed again for 14 days (or 20 rounds?).

Offtopic: lately I noticed that one of the MLCL teams are selling his Q90+ players for 70% (supposedly for "friends") in the same division, after rejecting way higher bids, so thumbs up for the "reject rule" :)

-Trx

P.S.: about my suggestion: legit players easily can avoid the automatic rejection by setting a minimum bid...

Zz00205193 wrote:
17:24 03/02 2010
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well done !

Zz00118360 wrote:
17:30 03/02 2010
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 OK, put an informative thread on the italian forum.
Good ML

ficus wrote:
17:41 03/02 2010
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thanks!

thaplayah wrote:
17:58 03/02 2010
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that looks good: D

no crash anymore. \

nice work spinner :)

SaDMaN wrote:
18:03 03/02 2010
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d

Zz00289994 wrote:
18:17 03/02 2010
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JUST ONE THING!!!Try to make when you play a match not see just word but see little circles like F.M!!!THATS WILL BE GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!

Zz00041030 wrote:
19:07 03/02 2010
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really nice ! :)

Rational wrote:
19:31 03/02 2010
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 First of all, I'm a bit disappointed that new events/tactics wasn't prioritized higher than these changes :( I can understand the reduction of serverload change, but not the others like 'achievements' for instance (they have the same on Playhousedisney and my four-year old loves...I find it more, hmmm, childish. But of course, you have managers in all ages....

 

Secondly, I want to continue on Pubbys question above regarding the 17 yo's: 

a) Will the limitation mean that the amount of players that earlier was created with higher Q now be Q74 - meaning we'll see many more Q74 than today, or will it be like Pubby asks, a shift downwards where todays Q78 will be Q74 next season, and Q74 will be Q70 and so on. 

b) Will the limitations be based on attributes or on Q? With the first one I mean that you put a limit on each attribute and for a player to be created with Q74, he'll have to reach maximum in all counting attributes, while if you base it on Q only, we could see players with extreme scores in the main main att, while much lower in the others....

Zz00153103 wrote:
19:57 03/02 2010
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it,s real managerleague is the best  thanks for that

Sammysosa wrote:
20:21 03/02 2010
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Nice.

I am missing the new International cup (MLEL), but everything else looks promising. Achievements ae very nice, good job thinking of that possibility! So is the new search and hopefully the notes section. I've been expecting the limit on unsigned players, and thus upgraded my youth academy. Thank you for proving me right ;)

Good job.

Magia wrote:
20:33 03/02 2010
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uffff, EXCELLENT!

zeta wrote:
21:14 03/02 2010
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good job!!! muy buen trabajo

Cooper wrote:
21:17 03/02 2010
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cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Abalardo wrote:
21:19 03/02 2010
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 Rational, todays 77 will be tomorrows 74 when it comes to the ammount.

Spinner wrote:
21:40 03/02 2010
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 Thats not entirely correct, Abalardo, but I will pick up all the questions now and answer them.

Lahiii wrote:
22:10 03/02 2010
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The achievments seems to be so exciting, but I really miss the UEFA league... as for the players search-system, i don't know how will it work, but it's true that the current system could be so slow sometimes. And  I don't really know the reason of the max Q74 for teamless players. The more time you spend, the higher Q player you get... I hope that there will be more Q74 then... But it's just an opinin. I'm really looking forward to try these new things. good work men!!! :)

Spinner wrote:
22:46 03/02 2010
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Questions and answers in regards to the blog-entry

temujin wrote:
When will we have a uefa cup?
This is not a priority at the moment. I do not have a date to give you.

Basher baz wrote:
When I go back to my "saved" search, I understand that it will have deleted any sold players, but does it ever add players as they become newly availabe?  Or should I consider it a "snapshot" in time that can only degrade and that I need to do the same search again to be sure that a new teamless Q74 has not been created?
It will never pick up new players not found in the original search. However, by clicking on your old search, you are set up with the same search-parameters automatically, so it takes very little time to search again.

Barkeeper wrote:
You now have maximum attribues that limit the Q on teamless players. Very rare over Q74/75. So I don't really understand "Today, there is no real limit to how good unsigned players can be". Will the Q74 max, shift the whole distribution of teamless players, so that now Q70 is common, next season Q66/67 is the common Q?
Ok, this should probbaly answer a few more questions about the same topic. Read carefully, and it should be clear:
Today, a new player is made with different stats in different ranges based on his role. If he were to "really win the lottery", he can come out as a Q80. The chance is just very small. However, a couple of Q79s have been found over the past year, and when testing this on the development-server, we saw there was no problem stumbeling across Q79 GKs "now and then".
With the new model, I have not changed the ranges, or the formulas behind them. I simply do this:
If the player ends up with a quality higher than 74 we simply skip creating the player.
This means:
The chance of finding a Q72, Q73 or Q74 will be exactly the same as today.


bocoboco wrote:
I am concerned about the new rule about rejecting a bid. Maybe Spinner can elaborate. What if the current price is below my expectation, and if I reject it - would I infringe your new rule ??
Any bid you reject yourself by pressing the reject-button will take the player off the transfer-list and you will not be able to add him for 14 days, correct. I recommend using the feature called "Minimum Bid" to prevent bids under that limit. 

Mr Jolly G Reaper wrote:
Can I assume we can scout these lovely Q74 teamless so long as they still appear in our stored searches?
I am not sure I understand your question. You can scout any player in the game, on your search-result or not.
Your latest scout-reports are still saved on the Watches-page too.


Mr Jolly G Reaper also wrote:
I love the buzz of clicking on a Q75/76, much the same as hooking a big salmon, can we not persuade you to throw in the odd Q76 pretty please? Pressumably not as search perameters have been set but I'm sure alot of the community share my view.
Of course I understand that it is a lot of fun finding one of these exceptional players. However, we have decided that the best players should come from a youth-academy, and not jump out of a hat.

Unkn0wngenius wrote:
When a person recieves an achievement from one of the three "hardest" ones, can other players then see these achivements so they know how to get them?
Yes, everyone can see which achievements you have, and how you got them. This is how we expect these to spread with time.

d o c wrote:
once your queued search is done, it should be displayed immediately rather than first click on it.
The thing is, doc, when the search is done, we have no idea if you are even on the search-page anymore, or even if you are online anymore. This is why we send you a message if the search takes more than 10 seconds. Also, keep in mind, you will most likely have more than 1 search-result in the queue, probably placed just a second or so after the first one. Should we then suddenly hide your current search-result just because a new one was ready? I think not.

MAD_SH4RK wrote:
The association with the creation of a manager ranking would be even more addictive! Maybe a future option, perhaps
I have actually received an intresting setup when it comes to ranking managers. There are some issues with it, because ML has a rather "closed" system where most players never play eachother (being locked inside a department), so we are still a bit in the think-tank on this one.

Zwedinho wrote:
What will happen if the bid for the player don't get accepted in 5 days? Wil it be the same, not be listed again for a period of 14 days?
That is a very good question, Zwedinho, and brings up a point we had not considered. Thank you. As it is right now, there is no 14-days penalty for these auto-rejections. I need to discuss this with other admins before I can post an answer.

Focilabda wrote:
When will be that time when you will update engine of "random" matches?
Error. Question does not compute.
Hull VS Chelsea yesterday: 1-1.
Quote from Wikipedia: The Norwegian national team is the only team that has played Brazil without ever losing to them.
Manchester City VS Nottingham Forest = 0-3 in the FA Cup
Chelsea VS Southend United = 1-1 in the FA Cup
On a more serious note:
The simulator in ML is not the reality. It is a game-simulator. It uses all the stats of all the players + teamstats + tactics etc from both sides and works its way through the match. There is no "safeguard" to make sure that a Q90 team will always defeat a Q70 team, and in the end, it is entirely up to the finishing of the Q90 players to make sure that ball goes into the goal without the Q70 goalie getting his hands on it. The simulator does not "check the result after the simulation is done" to validate it against the "expected result", and it blissfully ignorant of what happened one minute ago (unless that changed something that has effect) and focused on what is happening in THIS minute. So even if you have 5 shots on target, and the opponent has 0, the game can very well end 0-0 BECAUSE it is simulated, and not precalced. Had it been precalced, then I could have of course have "gone back in time" and "corrected" the result to something more "probable" if the result was a surprise, but that is not how the simulator works.


Wazzaa wrote:
JUST ONE THING!!!Try to make when you play a match not see just word but see little circles like F.M!!!THATS WILL BE GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sorry, but I do not think this is going to happen. I would love to have it, but it would require a completely new angle when it comes to simulating the matches.

Rational wrote:
First of all, I'm a bit disappointed that new events/tactics wasn't prioritized higher than these changes :( I can understand the reduction of serverload change, but not the others like 'achievements' for instance.
Thats ok Rational. I am happy to explain our priorities in this case:
We have, for a long time, tried to come up with a way to prevent losing so many players during their first couple of days in ManagerLeague. This is the time where we lose the most. We have gotten feedback from both professionals and actual newbies that we needed something to "pull them along" in the beginning, and this is something we have tried to work out for a long time. So when the idea was finally worked out properly, about having a kind of Achievement-system, we liked it a lot. At that time, it was only for the new players. However, it did not take very long before we figured out that we could enhance it, take it further, and make it something that everyone could enjoy. See for yourself, look at the feedback in the thread. And "childish"...I dunno...It's kind of nice to have a lasting proof on your team-details that you managed to win The Double in season X!


He also wrote:
Will the limitation mean that the amount of players that earlier was created with higher Q now be Q74 - meaning we'll see many more Q74 than today, or will it be like Pubby asks, a shift downwards where todays Q78 will be Q74 next season, and Q74 will be Q70 and so on.
As I answered Barkeeper, the answer is no. There will be the same amount of Q74 players as before. If you account for probability here, it basically means that the 30 (or so) best players (Q75 and up) created each season will simply NOT be created.

And then he wrote:
Will the limitations be based on attributes or on Q? With the first one I mean that you put a limit on each attribute and for a player to be created with Q74, he'll have to reach maximum in all counting attributes, while if you base it on Q only, we could see players with extreme scores in the main main att, while much lower in the others....
I belive this question is now void, as the process has been explained in full.

Finally, a word about this teamless / unsigned Q-limit:
This may, or may not, be just the first step. We have played with the idea of lowering it more with time, and we have even played with the idea of removing them alltogether. There is no need to go into a debate about this now, as we know nothing, and these "ideas" are things that will not be rushed in. It could be that the limit is dropped to Q73 in 3 seasons, what do I know...And maybe to Q72 in 8 seasons. Or maybe not. Mr Time will tell, and we will let you know when Mr Time has told us.



I hope that cleared up a few points, and we will certainly start talking about the point Zwedinho made, so we can answer that question as well.

Have a good evening!
- Spinner

AmorMio wrote:
01:09 04/02 2010
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Good

 

Zz00333158 wrote:
02:14 04/02 2010
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good

ALEX22THEBEST wrote:
04:12 04/02 2010
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Good.

Thank You.

Zz00334747 wrote:
04:47 04/02 2010
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wow nice

lokonn wrote:
06:40 04/02 2010
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РОССИЯ ВПЕРЕД!!!

Focilabda wrote:
07:56 04/02 2010
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Thanks for the answer!

 

New things will be great! :]

Jessie Pham wrote:
07:58 04/02 2010
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so kool...Thanks so much! Good Job!

Manskill wrote:
09:11 04/02 2010
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But, will it become som "awards" for the achivements?

Zz00216237 wrote:
10:40 04/02 2010
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bla..............bla.....................bla,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

brokenn wrote:
10:41 04/02 2010
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 good job

Zz00333888 wrote:
12:26 04/02 2010
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good  dso cool...

pablos1979 wrote:
23:25 04/02 2010
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Well... Somethings going on... That`s good.

Zz00325272 wrote:
00:05 05/02 2010
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k

 

Zz00303926 wrote:
03:23 05/02 2010
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nao entendo ingles

 

merdeka wrote:
03:47 05/02 2010
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good bro.....

Herman Hedning wrote:
07:00 05/02 2010
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 nice ;D

Zz00212066 wrote:
10:16 05/02 2010
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goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.........................

Thales wrote:
21:40 05/02 2010
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Yo Spinner! I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but the Season 54 update was the best update of all time! OF ALL TIME!

LarryJc wrote:
23:01 05/02 2010
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nice work spinners.but what department or division do i have to be in to qualify for thechampions leauge or uefa cup?

Zz00319535 wrote:
06:08 06/02 2010
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good work spinner cool

 

The Crying Orc wrote:
16:01 06/02 2010
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 (PLAYER: 15347001) - Burzum

Current Value

179.412.394

 

"I have also taken the liberty to limit the max-value you can search for to 250 million. ManagerLeague does not have players with a value higher than 173 million today, and we will never reach above 250.000.000, that's a promise. Hence there is little point in supporting it. "

 

I beg to differ since my keeper is worth more than 173 million.

youngy wrote:
17:28 06/02 2010
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Thanks for the info Spinner and overall the changes seem pretty good.  It used to be a nightmare searching for decent teamless players in that first weekend of the season so hopefully these changes should help.

You have mentioned in one of the responses that the best youth players should really come from the youth academy.  However in my experience and from reading forum posts this is not usually the case.  Perhaps one of the reasons why so many people search for teamless players at the start of the season is because their youth academy player wasn't that great.

If you are going to reduce the Max Quality of teamless players down then perhaps the Minimum Quality of youth academy players should be increased by 1Q. 

This may encourage more people to improve their Youth Academy in the Stadium maintenance too?

Provoost C. wrote:
13:00 08/02 2010
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Nice work!!!

acile wrote:
23:09 08/02 2010
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hoho numpang lewat gan

Zz00330210 wrote:
11:39 09/02 2010
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bro...btw there are a lot of mangers in uae but we cant purchace the credits via mobile.......cud u pls look into it????

Zz00321988 wrote:
20:53 10/02 2010
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HELO I TAKE A DRINK

Spinner wrote:
11:00 11/02 2010
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Point 3 has been updated about the 14-day rejection-delay.

benlopan wrote:
18:17 11/02 2010
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YO SPINNER ONE THING YOU WANA LOOK AT IS IN GAMES, WHEN A PENALTY IS DECIDED....IT COMES UP WITH GOAL SCREEN? RATHER THAN PENALTY> ???? A SMALL GRAPHIC THERE BE COOL he he But updates sound good!!!!!!

Fryse wrote:
18:23 12/02 2010
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 I have also taken the liberty to limit the max-value you can search for to 250 million. ManagerLeague does not have players with a value higher than 173 million today, and we will never reach above 250.000.000, that's a promise. Hence there is little point in supporting it. ..

Vel, HAR DET ikke vært, så finnes det vertfall nå... Trener Vegarmo's Peacocks United har en midtbanejuvel uten sidestykke... Han verdi er nå på hele 196.386.785...  Spiller heter så mye som Suat Seker.  (player: 16286177)

 

Rational wrote:
22:53 15/02 2010
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 Any updates to the coming changes on its way?

j.alejoti wrote:
01:53 16/02 2010
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muy bien felicitaciones

sigan asi de super bien

lordmonstru wrote:
09:18 16/02 2010
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cooll...!!!

Mosuc wrote:
13:07 16/02 2010
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nice

Zz00314419 wrote:
17:56 16/02 2010
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 no entendi nada cabron

Zz00333888 wrote:
18:38 16/02 2010
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so good

Zz00338377 wrote:
20:36 16/02 2010
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 Pit Bull ...the machine...the destroyer...

 

Jani018 wrote:
13:12 17/02 2010
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 Great, ManagerLeague forever!!!!

Zz00329944 wrote:
17:51 17/02 2010
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.....   ;)

mateusz293 wrote:
23:11 18/02 2010
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good job :) 

Terry el mele wrote:
00:26 19/02 2010
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no me guista los stats

James Bonde wrote:
01:46 22/02 2010
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Finnaly i got the new player-search system to work.

but i liked the old one better.

sorry

shikx wrote:
03:07 22/02 2010
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GR8 !!!!!

shikx wrote:
05:39 23/02 2010
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BRAVO !! maverlous job !!

Zz00040994 wrote:
15:25 25/02 2010
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 Very Cool!

Zz00137328 wrote:
22:12 25/02 2010
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I See !

Zz00343699 wrote:
23:00 27/02 2010
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i said what happen in mangareleague still in mangareleague

 

Zz00345339 wrote:
03:16 06/03 2010
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Typo:

 

7: Better performance for us, thanks to me!

Some serious optimisations have gone into the league-round ticker. Hopefully this should shave off another 3-5 minutes off the league-rounds.

Some serious optimisations have gone into the season-change logic. Hopefully this    !>!>!>shold<!<!<!   shave off an hour or so on the downtime between seasons.

;)

Zz00346181 wrote:
03:04 10/03 2010
picture

Aw aw..

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